Dr. John Meis: Hey everybody, I’m Dr. John Meis and I’m here with Melissa Thomas of the Spark Dental Network, how are you doing Melissa?

Melissa Thomas: I’m good, how are you doing Dr. John?

Dr. John Meis: I’m doing fantastic. So, our topic today is... well, as you know. We’re going to start that one over again. No, we can’t because we’re on Facebook live! That’s cool, very good. So, this episode of The Strategic Thinker... and remember, The Strategic Thinker is our weekly podcast that allows us to share some ideas on how DSOs and group practices can be even more effective and become more valuable. So, we use the Dental Enterprise Value Matrix, and we pick one of the 4 quadrants of the matrix to discuss each week, and this week we’re on the Culture quadrant, and we’re going to be talking about CEO leadership. So, we have one particular topic Melissa that you chose and I think it’s a really, really good one to talk about, especially in times when the confidence of our teams, the confidence of our patients, the confidence of our vendors is all down. And right now, with the number of COVID cases rising and becoming a scarier and scarier threat to everyone, and everyone’s on edge, and everyone’s worse, this topic could not come at a better time. So, the topic is CEO vulnerability. So Melissa, why don’t you walk us through your thoughts on this.

Melissa Thomas: Sure. And I love, Dr. John, we couldn’t have kicked it off better, because you were vulnerable right then. 

Dr. John Meis: (Laughs) Yeah, well, you know, that’s the thing about doing things live is you’re going to have some snafus now and then, which makes it I think just a little more exciting to do and a little more exciting to watch. 

Melissa Thomas: It was perfect though, because the first thing that popped into my mind was, “Look at the vulnerability.” And, you laugh it off, and I think that that’s what people need in tough times. And, you mentioned it... you know, I like to think that we’re out of this COVID challenge, but we’re not. And, especially with things, even schools, shutting back down, for those of us that have been lucky enough for kids to be in school. And so, there’s just no better time to practice. Vulnerability I think goes along with empathy, and really just being able to show up as a good leader during these times. I think it goes with CEOs as well as really any leader: a leader of your home, a leader in your practice. And so, I think it’s just a good time to remind ourselves that as the leader, your outward impression is what people are absorbing, and that’s so, so important for it to be a good one. I love this image that you chose too, because how can we look at ourselves in the mirror as a leader and see how we’re showing up to others? And, make sure it’s the exact image we want to show up. And, that’s not easy to do, but I think that reminding ourselves that, as the leader, you have to do it.

Dr. John Meis: And, it would have been easy for us to stop, delete the Facebook Live, start over again, and make it perfect. But, I think the people that we lead don’t expect us to be perfect. In fact, they know we’re not perfect, they’re watching us all the time. And so, when we act as though we’re perfect, even though everybody knows we’re not perfect, it’s not authentic and it’s not vulnerable. 

Melissa Thomas: The authenticity makes you more human and more relatable, and I think that’s what a couple of these topics that we want to talk through just help remind some of the important pieces of that. You said it’s not important to show up and be perfect, right? You don’t have to be the toughest leader, the person that can withstand anything and everything. It’s really more important that you show up as open, honest, and caring. And, I think that team members just really, truly see that and feel that. And in leadership, it’s very important to set that stage and that tone. 

Dr. John Meis: So that toughest leader, there may be moments to be that, right? You’re in the office building and you notice that there’s a fire raging up the stairs to the conference room that you’re sitting in with 10 people. Well, I want somebody tough who’s going to say, “Let’s get the hell out of here!” Right? So, there are moments. But, if that’s the only tool you have in your tool belt, you’re going to be using that on every situation whether it’s necessary or helpful or not. 

Melissa Thomas: Absolutely. And, I think humility and being humble is so, so important. And, it’s just a relatable feeling makes people feel understood and not inferior in a way. I think that that’s so important. It’s always important, but I think even more so in these times when everyone’s stressed, and everything is just kind of bubbling up of this nature, that the leadership presence can be one to really calm it in that regard too.

Dr. John Meis: Yeah. One of my friends was just highlighted in the Business Journal as a... oh, I can’t remember the exact term, but it was top CEOs, and it was basically their run-up to who was going to be the top CEO in that market. And, he talked about practicing humility, and if you don’t do that, you’re not going to get honesty from people. If don’t be humble and be maybe a little self-deprecating, people are not going to come to you, they aren’t going to open up to you. And, if they do open up to you, they may not tell you the whole truth, they may tell you only what they think you want to hear. And of course, what you really want to hear is the truth, but as a CEO or a leader in high position, it’s hard to get people to do that because they so want to please you. But, being humble allows them to relate to you better, so they can communicate more sincerely and honestly. 

Melissa Thomas: And, it makes them feel comfortable doing that, right? It makes them feel comfortable opening up to you because they’re not going to feel judged or I think this a phrase that you use often, “There’s a difference between cockiness and confidence.” And, we’re not saying not to be confident, right? You can be confident and humble, but you can’t be cocky and humble. And so, I think that there’s that fine line, you definitely need confidence because you still have to be a good leader and navigate your team and your practice and your organization through this challenging time, but there’s that fine line. 

Dr. John Meis: We saw with so many groups that when COVID started to happen, the top leader either didn’t communicate at all or didn’t communicate in a way that was humble saying, “This is what we know. This is what we don’t know.” And they also, a lot of them didn’t communicate in a way that felt caring, right? And, if you want to have great teamwork and build inclusive teams, you’ve got to be able to use both of those skills so that people relate to you, and you’re so much more influential when people can relate to you as a human being. 

Melissa Thomas: So true. And, it’s been a great time to see so many of our Spark clients, to see some of their challenges and successes through the communication of COVID as well. And really, some different stories of some that have started out maybe in not-so-great communication and realized that was maybe a mistake, and said, “Okay, let’s start over.” It’s never too late to start over, and to really kind of work through, “Let’s try this method of communication. Or, people are asking for more, so let’s give more.”  And, really just being able to adjust through that whole communication cascade. I think it was... I’ll get the quote wrong because I’m horrible with quotes, but it’s something to the effect of, “Communication is the root of most problems and the solution to most problems.” 

Dr. John Meis: Yes. Yeah, I like that. When we survey teams about what could be better about their practice, communication is always one of the things listed. And, it means different things to to different people so it’s hard to kind of zero in on what that is, but it’s so true. 

Melissa Thomas: And, I think the importance of that in today’s topic is really how you’re communicating too. A false sense of bravado or confidence is not going to go very far, but a relatable sense of, “I don’t know what’s next for our practice, but I can promise you I’ll do this, you’ll be safe in this regard, I’ll wait until the very last minute to have to furlough.” Whatever it is that you do know, being able to share that from that place of your truth just feels better. 

Dr. John Meis: Yep. And, I love your next point Melissa: willing to accept when you’re wrong or if you’ve made a mistake. And, not just accept it, but own it, right? I’ve used the phrase many times, “Knowing what I know now, here’s what I would have done differently...” And, I think if you don’t go back and say that, I think it’s important to own the things that could have been done better. If you don’t do that, first of all, then people become frightened of making mistakes. They don’t take risks. They don’t innovate. They don’t try to get on that constant improvement method, which sometimes can go a left turn when you were hoping it was going to make a right turn. And so, it’s so important to just be comfortable with that. Nobody’s perfect, everybody’s going to make mistakes. We’re often, as leaders, making decisions without all the information we wish we had, right? So, we’re often having to move forward with something even though the picture’s not completely clear. And, I’ve got a quote for you Melissa, you queen of quotes, and that is General George Patton who was one of the generals in WWII, and led a group of tanks, and he said, “An okay plan executed on violently now is worth much more than a perfect plan executed later.” And, I think there’s a lot of truth to that. Sometimes you don’t have a choice. Sometimes the circumstances mean you have to move forward, which means you may make a mistake.

Melissa Thomas: Right. And it’s all about how you address it, right? It’s all about how, once you’re aware of it, accept maybe it wasn’t the best decision, decide what is the next best, and be willing to ask the team what’s the next best step, too. I think that goes into the - I wouldn’t call it necessarily criticism, but - being able to be open about suggestions for improvement, too. If you’ve made a mistake and you’re kind of at a stalemate about what to do next, Heather’s famous quote of, “People support what they help create.” That’s a perfect opportunity. If you’ve made a mistake, open it up for others, and I think that is almost the definition of humility right there. Being open about a mistake and being willing to accept help. 

Dr. John Meis: Yep, very good, and welcome constructive criticism. And I’ll say even welcome all criticism, because not everybody knows how to do constructive criticism, right? So, we’ve got to be able to train ourselves to handle criticism and to be able to weed out what’s constructive, what’s not constructive, because there’s always a little truth about everybody’s point of view. There’s a little touch of truth. 

Melissa Thomas: An ounce of truth in every statement, that’s for sure. And, I think this next point, Dr. John, really goes along with the willing to accept when you’ve made a mistake as well, but also being transparent about your weaknesses or your challenges. As a leader, you’re not going to know what to do in every single circumstance, and that’s okay. Your team expects you to know most of the answers, that’s why you’re in charge, that’s why you’re the leader, but I don’t think they expect you to have every answer. They know that people are a unique blend of their own strengths and weaknesses or challenges.

Dr. John Meis: Yep, I totally agree. So, here’s some ideas about how you can display more vulnerability. So, one is always be candid. What’s your perspective of what’s going on right now? And, being able to share that clearly and be able to share that with good judgment. Not judgmental, but a display of good judgment, there’s a difference. 

Melissa Thomas: Very much so. And, being able to strike the truth balance of realism, not necessarily extreme optimism or doom and gloom, being very sensitive that you’re displaying the facts and you are setting the emotional tone in your practice and your organization. And, know that you have to have the emotional intelligence to be able to deliver that in the way that you want it to be delivered. 

Dr. John Meis: Yep, and I always want to tip on the side of optimism, right? So, if I’m in a normal status situation, I’m going to tip towards optimism. If we’re in a crisis situation, to inspire people and to get people’s focus, sometimes you slide to the other side. So, it’s a pretty narrow range, but you’ve got to be able to move a little bit either way. One of the top CEOs that I know will occasionally create a crisis in his company to sharpen everybody’s focus, and he’s gotten very good at it. It’s a successful tool for him. It’s not one that I use very often, but it certainly is one of the options that we have. And again, it’s another tool for your tool belt when you need to. 

Melissa Thomas: True. I think that we’ve touched on this a little bit, being open about your weaknesses, and sometimes you really have to step outside of your comfort zone to work on those. And, your team being able to see that is so, so telling. Knowing that not only are you willing to admit where you might have some opportunities, but you’re willing to work hard to strengthen those weaknesses, if you will. I think that’s a huge opportunity to lead by example in that regard as well. 

Dr. John Meis: Yep. And, sometimes the best idea is to work on those weaknesses, and sometimes it’s to compensate. So, some of my weaknesses are some of your strengths. So, we compensate with each other because you have a skill set and knowledge base that’s different from mine, and that’s another way of dealing with your weaknesses is making sure that you’re compensating with other people. But, if you’re not aware of your own - which is why self-awareness is so critical for leaders - if you’re not aware of your own weaknesses or if you’re unwilling to admit those weaknesses, it’s hard to have a team that compensates for that and blends well.

Melissa Thomas: So true, and it’s creating that culture of vulnerability, right? Creating that safe place where it’s okay for everyone to admit their weaknesses and to get help from each other. And, I love that you were saying compensating for each other, and to me that’s the definition of a well-rounded team is that you aren’t too heavily weighted in any direction or strength, if you will, and that’s the balance. 

Dr. John Meis: If you and I had the same experiences, the same knowledge base, and the same thought process, one of us would be unnecessary, right?

Melissa Thomas: It’d probably be me because I’m not the dentist, so that’s fair (laughs). 

Dr. John Meis: Well, you’re safe Melissa (laughs). And, the next is: don’t be afraid to ask for help from your team, you don’t have to do it all yourself. Sometimes you’re not at your best. Sometimes leaders have things outside of their business that is distracting them or putting them in a particularly vulnerable situation, and asking help from your team is really very, very emotionally healthy. And, it also really does a great job of building the confidence and self-esteem of the team members when you’re vulnerable and they can help you step up.

Melissa Thomas: There’s nothing quite like the feeling of making a suggestion and your leader taking it, giving you the accolades for a good suggestion or for the good help. And, I can say that I’ve experienced that on the other side. There’s no better feeling, and it’s a reward all in its own. And we talk about non-monetary benefits, if you will, and really being able to feel like you’re contributing in that manner from a team member perspective is huge.

Dr. John Meis: Yeah, for sure.

Melissa Thomas: We talked a little bit about the mistakes and admitting it, but one thing we didn’t say is asking for forgiveness. There’s so much power in the words “I’m sorry,” but they have to be heartfelt and honest. 

Dr. John Meis: And, my experience has been when you follow that simple formula right there, it’s in the past right away. At that point, it’s no longer relevant. It’s done. We can’t change the past. We’re moving forward. And I think that when everybody on your team is willing to do this, so often we start a strategy with all kinds of excitement and we sometimes invest a lot of money in it and we think it’s just the best idea, but very soon you start to see, “Oh gosh, we shouldn’t have done that.” But often, because you’ve already sunk the cost into the project, people just kind of keep on going even though it’s not working. And so, to eliminate that sunk-cost bias, you really have to be able to step back, admit a mistake, admit it, ask for forgiveness, and move on. It’s done.

Melissa Thomas: So very true. Actually, my daughter learned a new thing at daycare. She came up to me and said, “Zip it. Lock it. Put it in your pocket.” I don’t know why that made me think of you’re over and done, it’s gone. It’s zipped up. It’s locked in your pocket.

Dr. John Meis: And, another tool that you have in order to display more vulnerability is having some system for 360 degree feedback. So, this is your superiors or major customers, this is the people that work for you, all giving you some feedback on how you do. Heather Driscoll has a great process that she uses called The Leadership Circle to give CEOs and other leaders this kind of feedback. One exercise we did with this was a small - well, not small - a group practice that was going through a transition and looking for who was going to be the right leader. Who right now is the right leader? And, it was fascinating to see the results, because it made it so clear what the right next step was. And so, in their case, they had to have some interim steps to move people along their self-development path before they were ready to make a decision or a change. So, it was really, really helpful to have those. 

Melissa Thomas: That is a perfect exercise. I’ve seen leaders be resistant to request the feedback. And, to me, it was just a true sign that they weren’t willing to embrace vulnerability, right? They weren’t willing to take that next step. And, maybe they just weren’t there in their leadership journey, but I could tell that they wouldn’t really flourish to that next level of leadership and really amass that true following from their team members and have that personal authority without that next step. So, it’s telling when someone’s resistant to that because it’s a very powerful tool. And, I think from putting my team member hat on, if you look at a leader who’s willing to accept your feedback, that’s huge. And, to know that I’m going to take the time to fill something out, they’re actually going to read it and do something with it. That’s so powerful. 

Dr. John Meis: And, the last point here is remain personable and accessible. And, I think that is a skill that does not necessarily come easily to people that have high demand on their time and have a lot that they’re trying to accomplish. Sometimes these 2 things start to fail and when they start to fail at these 2 things, there starts to be a gap between themselves and the team. And, that is just really disastrous for teamwork because you’re not able to personally demonstrate living the values of the organization, and you’re not able to demonstrate personally the clarity about the vision and what we’re trying to accomplish. If there’s anything that is so important for a CEO to be doing, those are 2 that I would think of as the most important. 

Melissa Thomas: That’s very well said, Dr. Meis.

Dr. John Meis: One other little tip is when you get feedback, there’s only one response you need to have. So, no matter what the feedback is, one response works for everything. You simply say, “thank you for letting me know.” So, often when we get feedback, sometimes it hurts our feelings, sometimes it’s delivered in a way that’s harsh or unfeeling or uncaring. And so, sometimes we have a response to that. And so, one of my mentors taught me the “thanks for letting me know” trick. And that way, I just say that, and no matter what I’m feeling emotionally, it gives me a little crutch that I can say that, I can get out of the situation, and then deal with my own feelings and deal with the information that I got. So, one little trick that’s kind of helpful. Alright, very good. Well, thanks Melissa for all this information, I think it’s really a great topic. And, I think all of us can continue to keep our own pulse on how we’re doing on vulnerability. And, there’s always room for improvement. As always, at Spark we offer a Discovery Call. So, this is a discover your strategy - it’s an hour-long call, we use a couple of different tools to help you identify your strategy. Sometimes when there’s a lot going on in the marketplace, there’s a lot going on in your practices, sometimes strategy loses some of the attention that it deserves. So, we offer that. And, if you want to do that, you can go to SparkDentalNetwork.com/join or you can call the office 866-277-2758. So, thanks Melissa and thanks everyone for being on this episode of The Strategic Thinker. We’ll see you next time. 

‍